Суд над Бхагавад-гитой / Attempt to ban Bhagavad-gita

THE BOGUS MAY TAPE

Sat: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

SP: Yes. I shall recommend some of you, after this is settled up. I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Tam: Is that called ritvik-acarya?

SP: Ritvik. Yes.

Sat: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and...?

SP: He's guru. He's guru.

Sat: But he does it on your behalf?

SP: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru haya, he is actually guru. But by my order.

Sat: So they may also be considered your disciples?

SP: Yes, they are or their disciples, but consider who...

Tam: No. he is asking that these ritvik-acaryas, they are officiating, giving diksa, the people who they give diksa to, whose disciples are they?

SP: They are his disciples.

Tam: They are his disciples?

SP: Who is initiating. His grand-disciple.

Sat: Then we have a question concerning...

SP: When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciples. Just see.

THE ACCURATE MAY TAPE

This version we have compiled is perfectly accurate in all detail-pauses, unclear words, etc. If the GBC has a version that is more clear, and can be heard better, then let them come forward with it now. Otherwise, when we say a segment of words is indistinguishable, that means that not only ourselves but numerous other devotees also could not make out what was being said. We have an excellent copy of the tape and are using the best equipment available.

Sat: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

SP: Yes. I shall recommend some of you, after this is settled up (local business that they had been discussing), I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Note: Here Prabhupada establishes that the following conversation is going to be about officiating gurus before his departure, not about gurus "at that time when he is no longer with us."

Tam: Is that called ritvik-acarya?

SP: Ritvik. Yes.

Sat: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and-

Note: This is a meaningless question, and so Prabhupada didn't even wait for him to finish it. He "who gives" is guru-Srila Prabhupada. Satsvarupa was no doubt thinking of he who "officiates" the initiation but his wording was off. The ritvik does not "give" the initiation; he officiates the initiation. Satsvarupa's question is not clear, and so the answer cannot be confirmed to support any conclusion.

SP: -He's guru- He's guru.

Note: The first "He's guru" broke into Satsvarupa's words, and so Prabhupada repeated it. That's the only reason. Srila Prabhupada is simply stating his own relationship to his disciple; the one "who gives" the initiation is guru. It is possible that he was referring to the ritvik as being guru, but in that case it would mean siksa-guru. In many places Prabhupada said that his senior disciples may be taken as siksa-guru of the neophytes if they repeated perfectly what they have heard. Guru simply means teacher in this sense.

Sat: But-he does it on your behalf?

Note: Here Satsvarupa introduces the delusion. In his mind he interpreted the answer as meaning the ritvik is the initiating guru.

SP: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru. So on my behalf. On my order, "amara ajnaya guru haya." (3 sec. pause) He's actually guru, but by my order.

Note: This is the most important answer. In fact it is so significant that at the end of this Appendix we quote the entire section in Caitanya-caritamrta where this quote comes from. Srila Prabhupada is being questioned as to what will be the system of guru after his departure. To this line of questioning Prabhupada quotes a verse from the Caitanya-caritamrta. that elaborately explains how me is "actually a guru." Prabhupada is not going to recite the whole section for Satsvarupa right then and there. Satsvarupa knows how to read and so Prabhupada simply gave him the key words. Thus all Satsvarupa had to do was look it up. Prabhupada's intentions for guru after his departure are very clear. Anyone who can read can see who Prabhupada was appointing guru.

Sat: So they may also be considered your disciples?

Note: Here Satsvarupa further reveals the delusion he is in. He has now fully convinced himself that the new devotees are actually his own disciples.

SP:...(words)...they're disciples, but consider. (2 sec. pause) Who.

Note: Any interpretation of this partial statement is simply mental speculation. It is significant however that Prabhupada made this response in a tone of chastisement, as though he wanted Satsvarupa to give up his delusion. Tamala could see the confusion and so he interjected:

Tam: No. He is asking that these ritvik-acaryas... (Prabhupada: Hmmm)...they are officiating, giving diksa,...(hmmm)...the people who they give diksa to...(hmmm)...whose disciple are they?

Note: We have to give Tamala credit here for picking up that Satsvarupa is in delusion. Satsvarupa's questions were not at all in line with Prabhupada's answers and so Tamala wants to make it perfectly clear. Tamale's wording is very concise. It is also significant that three times during this question Prabhupada said, "Hmmm". Prabhupada was speaking very clearly at this time, and so there is no reason for any of this tape to be ambiguous-unless it was tampered with.

SP: They are (d)-his-disciples.

Note: just before the word "his" there is an unmistakable dip in sound. There can be no doubt that the word "his" was dubbed in; most likely in place of the word "my." Why would Prabhupada say "his" disciples to a clear question like Tamala's? Even if there were no dip, we would know that it was dubbed simply on the philosophical basis, but with the dip, there is no doubt. Who did the dubbing??

Tam: They are his disciples.

Note: This response confirms the dub. From the original bogus transcript, everyone thought Tamala was repeating what Prabhupada said. But that was an easy trick they thought they could get away with. This was not spoken as a question to Prabhupada as the bogus transcript led one to believe. This was immediately and softly spoken on the side to Satsvarupa simply confirming that the new devotees were Prabhupada's disciples. Had Prabhupada actually said "his disciples," then Tamala would have said to Satsvarupa, "They are our disciples." One word dubs are relatively easy but even then they couldn't make it perfect. Tamala is talking to Satsvarupa, so, when he says, "his disciples," Prabhupada is "his".