KEEP THE TRADITION OF SALMON NETTING ON THE TAMAR TAVY

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This discussion topic has been automatically created of petition KEEP THE TRADITION OF SALMON NETTING ON THE TAMAR TAVY.

Orri

#26

2014-03-30 19:54

Isn't the Tamar MP the lady who fights for commercial fishermen and improved quotas? Why doesn't she support the Tamar nets? A conflict of opinion perhaps or just party politics?

Guest

#27

2014-03-30 20:59

This Petition is a Joke. It's not about the Rich having the upper hand and the poor being down trodden.
At least be truthful, it's not going to make anyone a living wage as your limited on only being allowed to take very small numbers of fish, it's just a hobby.
It's always sad when change has to happen and you don't want it to, but just for the sake of a few netsmen who will contribute nothing back to
the river. Please think very hard about signing this petition, do a bit of research on what's happen to salmon stocks on the Tamar and the issues facing these fish environmentally.

Guest

#28

2014-03-31 04:15

Do not remove a way of life that has being going on for decades.Happy memories as a child watching with. My dad the salmon men doing what they have always done
Orri

#29

2014-03-31 07:14

It's so easy for some to say get rid of the netsmen because it is only a hobby so what is
angling? As for putting things back look at C+R. Catching gravid fish dripping with eggs
playing them for half an hour or more and then returning them with ripped lips damaged gills
and completely exhausted to be caught again and again.If they're lucky they die at sea rather
than go through that cruel onslaught year after year on the Tamar.If you want to put something back stop exploiting spawning stock and finish in August like the nets that'll save millions of eggs every year.


Guest

#30

2014-03-31 07:48

C'mon you Cornish people get behind your netsmen don't let an integral part of your heritage
fall to the colonial attitudes of a privileged few. It is a case of wealth and influence against the common man justice must prevail .

Guest

#31

2014-03-31 08:01

I don't understand how people gauge wheather the nets should be allowed back on by the fact that they watched them when they were younger !!!
It must be great to watch nice fresh fish gilled in a net and ripped out and slung up the bank. This is about protecting fish stocks, not about giving local dog walkers and tourists something to watch while they eat sandwiches and ice cream on the Quay.

Guest

#32

2014-03-31 09:52

But that was a right we all used to have to paddle in the river,picnic on the bank and watch the salmon netsmen now we are being excluded by anglers and riparian owners whose only intention is to selfishly keep the river environment to themselves by excluding the public.God didn't give anglers the rights to exclusivity when it comes to rivers,mountains and lakes and Defra should
recognise that before dancing to their tune.As the law stands the only way for the Cornish Tourist Trade to purchase and advertise 'fresh Tamar salmon'on the menu is by purchasing the fish from the Tamar Seines so in order to provide a fish in prime condition(not gravid) fish are humanely dispatched and tagged.The three Tamar nets are essential suppliers to the Cornish tourist experience and should be kept at all costs.

Orri

#33

2014-03-31 10:36

A valid socio economic point there are only two groups who catch Tamar salmon legally anglers and nets.
Anglers are not allowed to sell their catch and netsmen are,so the whole rural economy when it comes to dining on salmon relies on the Tamar Seine net fishery so getting rid of the Seines would be a retrospective step and a tragedy for the exclusive dinner party.


Guest

#34

2014-03-31 14:22

By law Tamar nets fish two tides a day thats about 6hrs a day 5 days per week between June 16th and the last week of August and are allowed to keep 23 salmon and pay about three hundred pounds for the licence.Anglers pay seventy two pounds to legally fish and can fish 24/7 from June until the second week in October and can keep ONE SALMON A DAY.You do the maths and say if thats fair.

Guest

#35

2014-03-31 15:45

The argument framing netsmen as a small, wretched group of individuals being set upon by the big beastly aristocratic landowners is a total distortion badly parroting modern soundbite politics. It is disingenuous in the extreme as salmon are a common resource on the Tamar enjoyed by all. Netsman on the Tamar are in reality a minority seeking to commercially exploit an endangered resource for their own personal gain regardless of the damage they do ecologically.

To say that the netsmans’ activities are in some way more virtuous and therefore ‘sustainable’ because they use antiquated techniques is a completely illogical - Just because I shoot a black Rhino in the face with a bow and arrow rather than a .375 H&H doesn’t diminish my impact upon that species.

Anglers, riparian owners and ecological charities have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds and uncountable hours of sweat and endeavour to try and ensure that salmon and seatrout will be here for the next generation to enjoy. What have the netsman done? Aside from extending a grubby paw to accept a payoff for not being counterproductive to fish stock preservation that is.

Another payout is ultimately what is being bargained for here. Hiding behind the smokescreen that ending the licenses at retirement will erode heritage, is the desire to get another grubby fistful of money for selling the licenses on. They’ll also probably be upset to lose their legitimate front for illegal poaching activities.

The netsmen are ultimately a greedy, self interested and short sighted circle on the wrong side of history. No better than whale hunters or providers of endangered species for Chinese medicine they care little about their exploitation.

Time and tide have moved on and it is with this generation that we should consign netsmen to the past. I suspect as soon as they are gone it will be a past we feel no pride in recalling.





Guest

#36

2014-03-31 16:28

I think the point is made the collusion of the anglers Riparians and ecological charities is about right no mention of netsmen these 'grubby,self interested and short sighted' individuals obviously because of their lowly station and their inability to shoot black rhino. But while
Netsman fight for their livelihoods or part of the self righteous colonialists and Colonel
Blimps are recipients of Grant in Aid,Vat,Business tax exemptions and rate reductions and the
influence reserved for the privileged few by parliamentary lobbying and hospitality.(no doubt
smoked Tamar salmon and cucumber sandwiches)
EA Policy instigated in the interests of anglers and riparians are partly responsible for the
reduction of stocks in the 1990's and is supported by the new rationale that stock from hatcheries are reducing the genetic integrity of the salmon stock on the Tamar.


Orri

#37

2014-03-31 17:36

Poaching is against the law and any netsman or angler who participates in the activity will be prosecuted.Obviously guest Number 35 has evidence to back up his insinuation that netsmen are using their legal activities as a front for poaching.
guest

#38 Re:

2014-03-31 17:57

#29: Orri - Orri, you clearly have NO idea how salmon fishing with a fly rod and line works, unbelievably naive comments. Have the common sense to give factual information. Salmon stocks are critically low in the Tamar, nets will finish salmon runs. Thats what people need to understand

 

guest

#39 Re:

2014-03-31 17:59

#35: - Well said and all correct

 

harry potter

#40 Re:

2014-03-31 18:03

#30: - Yeah, catch all the salmon bring back the net tradition!! after all its tradition!! Its "tradition" for Salmon to swim and spawn in the Tamar, they have been doing that for a lot longer than the nets have been catching them, for me "Salmon are the tradition to protect not the nets"

 


Guest

#41 Re:

2014-03-31 18:06

#34: - What happens to the by catch. Sea trout, Bass, Mullet, Grayling??

 

jethro

#42 Re:

2014-03-31 18:14

#32: - Cornish tourist experience, Tamar Salmon on the menu? Have a PASTY instead, there are in plentiful supply

 

Netsman Bill

#43

2014-03-31 19:16

I fear that this petition is misleading.There is no plan to stop the Tamar Net fishery. The recent NLO review has gone out of it's way to make provisions for netsmen to return inspite of poor salmon stocks and the river not achieving its conservation limit. There is is nothing in the NLO review that states that netting should be stopped and it is not DEFRA's intention to stop netting providing Salmon stocks remain sustainable.
Salmon netting in its current form was first licensed after the first world war in an effort to help feed a starving nation. Times have moved on and regrettably, since salmon stock have declined, the 70 odd salmon that the netsmen can catch a year provides little to help feed a nation. Sadly the Net fishery is not viable commercially and whilst I believe it should continue as proposed you must accept that it is a hobby and not a commercial fishery. Much of the information currently posted is in accurate and misleading and paints a one sided and untruthful side which wrongly attacks Riparian owners. It does nothing to help promote the continuation of this fishery and is little more than a slanging match. Please make sure of your facts before expressing an opinion as it will only damage our cause.
Note the existing licence has never been transferable within a family and there is no right to transfer a licence.
guest

#44 Re:

2014-03-31 19:44

#43: Netsman Bill - A very sensible post which clearly is reflecting the truth

 


Guest

#45

2014-03-31 19:53

On the contrary 38 I have fished a fly with the best thats how I've witnessed the wilful slaughter of gravid stock by anglers, seen for myself the damage caused to lips and gills
and the exhaustion of fish released back to the river after being played for an hour to
provide 'sport' for the angler.I've actually seen coloured fish taken for the pot and spewing eggs on to the grass and that is why I always fish for salmon between June and July when I can take prime fish home to eat.
The biggest predators of Tamar salmon are multiplying at an alarming rate over 20,000 at the last count one salmon per day for four and a half months x 2o,ooo is a lot of salmon eggs.
And lets put the record straight about net catches they cannot influence stocks because the
by-laws,regulation and NLO's have stopped or reduced to an extent that they are being bludgeoned out of existence while the lucrative profits of the riparian owners are protected and allowed to
exploit the most fish for the longest period.

Guest

#46

2014-03-31 20:59

If you want evidence of netsmen in the SW misusing their license to provide a legitimacy to illegal netting I suggest you go and consult magistrate court records for past convictions. Or you could speak to any existing or retired water bailiff on the troubles faced when trying to deal with the individuals involved. You could even listen to current license holders who have publicly and arrogantly stated that they intend to flout any restrictions and limits the EA may insist be placed on their license to operate.

With all these things the resources are not there to correctly police the restrictions placed upon licensees. And when finally the stars align and a prosecution is possible the punishment never fits the crime.

As for the notion that all Angling (both private and public institutions) scientific, riparian, and governmental stakeholders are in collusion, conspiring to crush the poor netsman. Ha. If you’re standing in a room full of people and think that everyone’s an A hole it’s perhaps time to look towards yourself.

The endeavour towards healthy salmon stocks in the Tamar and surrounding rivers is conducted by individuals from all social and financial strata. It is unified and classless in its ambitions recognising that future enjoyment of these fish and their ecosystem should be for all. And once again there are the minority netsmen intent on pursuing fish stocks to the end against the general consensus of sound ecological management; strip mining a resource for personal financial gain irrespective of the cost to the future.
Orri

#47

2014-03-31 22:55

I don't want evidence of past offences because I didn't make the accusation but you did.Now as you most probably know if any licensee is convicted of a poaching offence he is prevented from applying for a license.So your accusations do not apply to any of the Tamar three as they're
still preferred candidates,however there are poachers among the angling fraternity as magistrate
records show so please don't try to assume the moral high ground.
Now if this unelected cartel of angling interest had any intention of saving salmon stocks it would have accepted a 10 yr moratorium as offered during the 1975 FWFA Review but of course it was the threat of court action that frightened the EA into protecting the lucrative existence
of the Riparians and taking the easier option of attacking the most vulnerable through NLO's and bylaws,

Guest

#48 Re:

2014-04-01 07:04

#45: - Most fly fishing on the tamar is catch and release. In 45 years I have NEVER seen a Salmon hooked and played for more than 15 minutes, If fact most are returned within 6-8mins nowadays due to conservation issues.  I have NEVER seen eggs dripping out of a fish, where are you seeing this? Any angler keeping a stale fish should be prosecuted as far as Im concerned. But, this post is about conservation of decimated tamar salmon stocks and the nets which do nothing for the cause and sadly will only add to demise of this precious creature which has swam the Tamar for centuries. There are two views on the subject nets / no nets. We just need to ensure that the REAL facts are reported. This is not rich v poor as posts keep reporting, this is conservation.

 


Guest

#49

2014-04-01 09:05

Then lets stick to the facts the Gunnislake counter has been used to calculate the RSE and CL and
has been found to be under reporting especially in high water events which for the spate rivers
flowing from the moors must be quite frequent. If the under reporting involves 20% or even 30% of the Tamar stock then it is consievable to deduct CL compliance would have been achieved in every year.But of course since it's inception in 1994 various problems relating to resistivity counters have been highlighted in a plethora of scientific studies and also video validation all
which apply to Gunnislake.Water Conductivity,shoaling,camera shutter speeds etc.etc have all been identified as potential reasons for an inaccurate stock analysis and evaluation. As the main
component of stock assessment calculations and resultant management strategy the accuracy and reliability of Gunnislake data is vital.If we take the 1994 figures for returning salmon we have
6245 1995 we have 5581 which can be explained by teething problems of the Logie 2001 model but then there is a significant drop which could be explained by the conclusions of the Toms 2013 study. If this underreporting had been presented to a public enquiry the Inspector would have thrown the case out.


Guest

#50

2014-04-01 11:54

What chance do the Tamar netsmen have to make their case when former Fisheries Minister Richard Benyon has just accepted a job with the Angling Trust as Ambassador.Disgraceful.